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Thread: To the Moderators: About those rules....

  1. #1

    To the Moderators: About those rules....

    To the moderators.

    Guys, tone it down a bit. You spend a lot of time publicly browbeating visitors who "are too lazy to read the rules". Maybe send a private message explaining the rules rather than generating a negative discussion and chasing off people who could contribute to the site. It honestly feels like this site is more about trolling visitors than building a community where people can openly share things of interest. Also, consider this, maybe you have too many rules.


    Regards,

    Ziggy

  2. #2
    Okay..
    There are a lot of things that go on behind closed doors. For example, we can see when a person registers for the site. I have absolutely no problem with our friends who join us, lurk for a time, and then post an ad and a couple other short posts. What I don't appreciate is when ppl join and within five minutes begin the sales pitch. They haven't been on the forum long enough to even read the rules. Another obvious complaint I have is when a seller comes out of the gate with the attitude that den members are desperate and deserve to be treated poorly. Also, when members report being contacted via PM to solicit a sale. Not gonna happen on my watch:-)

    About the rules...I read them, hopefully you read them, is it too much to ask new members to read them? I honesty don't think it is.

    So before you start making a fuss over something, we would hope that you might contact us privately to discuss the issue.
    Last edited by sweetpetitefeet; 14-08-2015 at 05:10 PM.
    "I'm from trouble"

  3. #3
    Administrator ergleburgle's Avatar
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    Guys, tone it down a bit.
    Absolutely not.

    You spend a lot of time publicly browbeating visitors who "are too lazy to read the rules".
    No. We are publicly uncompromising with people who are too lazy to read the rules because they're too lazy to read the rules; when they sign up they click a button that says they agree to read them and abide by the rules. If it becomes obvious that they didn't read them and/or have no intention of abiding by them, YES YES YES they will be ridiculed - because they're bloody idiots and bloody liars.

    Maybe send a private message explaining the rules rather than generating a negative discussion and chasing off people who could contribute to the site.
    Why should we waste MORE of our time (which we give voluntarily) trying to educate people who have proven by their actions that they have no respect for this forum or anybody in it, and are not interested in learning?

    Contributions from that kind of person I can do without - YES, we chase them away, and YES that it completely intentional. We want them to go away. They are not the calibre of people we want here.

    It honestly feels like this site is more about trolling visitors
    Before you spammed us with this patronising nonsense, your last post was last October. What would you know about community or the way visitors are treated? How many new users have YOU personally welcomed to the forum, or otherwise contributed to their comfort and feeling of wellbeing?

    Visitors do not get trolled and they NEVER WILL. Nobody on this forum is EVER trolled, with the exception that sometimes we will openly state that we are trolling a particularly annoying person for sport.

    If you don't like that because it's happening to YOU... don't be a particularly annoying person.

    If you don't like that because you're a condescending white-knight who's taking up the cudgels on behalf of the silent oppressed... I refer you to rule 6 ("keep out of shit that doesn't concern you", 7 ("this is not a democracy and if you don't like that you're free to go away"), 20 ("if we want opinions on the way we run the site we will ask for them"), and 23 ("you ticked the box that said you read the rules when you signed up - if you didn't that's YOUR lookout, not ours.")

    ...building a community where people can openly share things of interest.
    Pardon me, but isn't that exactly what we HAVE? And, if we were full up with people who didn't respect the rules, would that still be the case?

    Have you ever actually read the rules? Proper, courteous human beings never fall foul of them because they're not complicated or unreasonable. It basically boils down to "take responsibility for your own safety, don't be an arse, don't use this forum to break the law, and if you don't like DOSF's style, don't try to change it - just leave" - the reason there are so many is because we are FED THE FUCK UP with dealing with the same idiotic problems again and again and again.

    Also, consider this, maybe you have too many rules.
    Do you think I write all that shit for fun?

    The rules are there for clarity. I realise that they're not an article of fine literature, but really... it doesn't take long to read it, does it? It's not hard to read, not hard to understand, and not hard to abide by.

    ADDITIONALLY..

    Did you know that we get frequent messages from people who say that the rulebook - and the manner in which it is enforced - is exactly what makes them FEEL SAFE and feel like a part of this community in the first place?

    We are not here to consume content, watch pornography, buy used underwear, or visit a prostitute.

    It is VERY obvious that the person you're defending here treated us exactly that way. It's also obvious that you support her because you want freebies. You and I both know that she wouldn't have become a valuable contributor to the forum, or a member of our community. You and I both know that she didn't have any interest in foot fetishists or foot fetishism beyond the concept of easy money. You and I both know that she was here for one reason, and one reason only - to sell shit and to objectify us as a captive audience of desperate neck-beard basement-dwellers for whom getting some of her soiled undergarments would be as close to sex as they'd ever get.

    Those people... I don't want them here. Neither does anybody. Except you, apparently.
    Every thought you produce, anything you say, any action you do, it bears your signature.
    -- Thich Nhat Hanh

  4. #4
    God Of Footsniffing
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    Maybe it's me but what gets on my nerves more than anything else is when a new user just signing up immediately tries to sell their shit, followed closely when someone posts porn for profit.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Absolutely not.
    Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    YES YES YES they will be ridiculed - because they're bloody idiots and bloody liars.
    I think people genuinely make honest mistakes and don't need to be harassed for it. To be frank, since Vampirella left, I think some of the rules you've come up with and, at least, the way you enforce them, can be a bit silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Why should we waste MORE of our time (which we give voluntarily) trying to educate people who have proven by their actions that they have no respect for this forum or anybody in it, and are not interested in learning?
    On nearly every post I view, there is a long thread of negative banter between moderators and guests that goes on and on into silliness. The moderators quite obviously "volunteer" A LOT of time and effort trying to "educate" people about how much they're "idiots". I would bet that you could spend a lot less time to greater effect if you simply used a little tact and stopped publicly harassing your guests. My guess is that you actually enjoy it. Personally, I think it's gotten old.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Contributions from that kind of person I can do without - YES, we chase them away, and YES that it completely intentional. We want them to go away. They are not the calibre of people we want here.
    Since Vampirella left, I only casually visit the forum anymore, and there's a reason for that. On nearly every post I view there is a thread of negativity between moderators and guests. I used to find links to new and cool fetish sites and really cool original posts, and even a wide range of diverse topics and opinions. You know, Vampirella and I go back a long time. Back when the internet was only AOL dial-up and the online foot fetish community was in its infancy. Back then we used to exchange stories and many of the bigger mainstream sites established early connections with Vamp. It's one of the reasons why this forum was so popular. If anything, you've lowered the calibre of this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Before you spammed us with this patronising nonsense, your last post was last October. What would you know about community or the way visitors are treated? How many new users have YOU personally welcomed to the forum, or otherwise contributed to their comfort and feeling of wellbeing? Visitors do not get trolled and they NEVER WILL. Nobody on this forum is EVER trolled, with the exception that sometimes we will openly state that we are trolling a particularly annoying person for sport.
    So let me get this straight....visitors will NEVER be trolled, except when you are trolling them for sport and spamming your own forum with patronizing nonsense. Got it! Have fun with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    If you don't like that because it's happening to YOU... don't be a particularly annoying person.
    Let me paint a picture of what you sound like here.....You're like that doppy guy at the hotel reception desk who, when approached by a guest who complains that the toilet is broken, says, "don't be an annoying person". This forum is like Faulty Towers and you're Mr. Faulty. Although John Cleese was funnier.


    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Do you think I write all that shit for fun?
    Honestly, yes. And if you don't you're a sad little man.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    The rules are there for clarity. I realise that they're not an article of fine literature, but really... it doesn't take long to read it, does it? It's not hard to read, not hard to understand, and not hard to abide by.
    Personally, as a long standing member of this site I think the rules should be revised and how you interpret and enforce them should be as well. I have no problem blocking someone whose jamming up the forum with blingy ads, but if someone wants to share there website and they happen to have something to sell, I don't see a problem with that. In fact, I think it's a good thing. It adds variety and depth. After all, you have a section for "smelly items for sale" and the woman in question shared her site in that section.


    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    Did you know that we get frequent messages from people who say that the rulebook - and the manner in which it is enforced - is exactly what makes them FEEL SAFE and feel like a part of this community in the first place?
    Did you know that you get even more frequent messages to the contrary? That's actually the point I'm making. There's too much negativity here and it's not all coming from your "idiotic" visitors. It should be obvious to you the tone you set. After all, you're the one setting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    We are not here to consume content, watch pornography, buy used underwear, or visit a prostitute.
    Really? And yet you have content posted that visitors consume. You share and watch pornographic foot fetish videos and have a section for members to post used "smelly items for sale". Are you proofreading before you post?

    Quote Originally Posted by ergleburgle View Post
    It is VERY obvious that the person you're defending here treated us exactly that way. It's also obvious that you support her because you want freebies. You and I both know that she wouldn't have become a valuable contributor to the forum, or a member of our community. You and I both know that she didn't have any interest in foot fetishists or foot fetishism beyond the concept of easy money. You and I both know that she was here for one reason, and one reason only - to sell shit and to objectify us as a captive audience of desperate neck-beard basement-dwellers for whom getting some of her soiled undergarments would be as close to sex as they'd ever get.
    What's obvious to you is not obvious to me. And what I know is vastly different than what you know. I honestly do not expect you to moved by what I say or to see reason in it. I've played the game with you before and it was like having a conversation with Donald Trump. So you can take this around the playground with your kindergarten banter, but I've said my peace.

  6. #6
    God Of Footsniffing sacurason's Avatar
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    If you think that "every post you see" has negative banter between the moderators and guests, you really have been away for a while. Maybe if you were an active member of the site your input would be credible, but you're clearly not.

    Lemme spell some shit out for you, from my experience as an active member:

    1. No, every guest is not attacked. We had one come in just yesterday, and he was welcomed to the forum. I recall Varangian was also recently welcomed by two of the moderators personally.

    2. The guests that are 'attacked' are typically users who immediately come in to sell wears. Generally speaking, they are not instabanned. Usually there is a warning first. Sometimes those who come in with "worship me, loser!" type posts as their first posts get banned. Even these are often given a warning, however. In some cases, they reform a bit and become regular members of the site.

    3. Vamp's gone, bud. I'm not privy to any of the information around that, but whatever. This guy gives, what is now, a decade or more? Of his life to keep this forum running, and all he gets is "oh well it was better back in the day". Also, let me remind you that there is more than one active moderator. One of them leaves longer posts than the other two, more often, but without any data on your side it seems like you're the one who's unfairly attacking people.

    4. *piece.

    5. If you're gonna start a discussion about "maybe sending a PM instead of creating a negative discussion", maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't know if you wanted an outpouring of support or just wanted to make this a "thing", but no one's going for it. Actually, one of the main reasons I made this post is to ensure that the moderators know that you don't in any way represent the majority.
    "It's an indulgence to sit in a room and discuss your beliefs as if they were a juicy piece of gossip." -Heinlein

  7. #7
    Administrator ergleburgle's Avatar
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    [removed for editing]
    Every thought you produce, anything you say, any action you do, it bears your signature.
    -- Thich Nhat Hanh

  8. #8
    God Of Footsniffing
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    I think I have a theory why some people don't read the forum rules. It can fall into several possibilities

    1. Users are so anxious to jump into the forum, promise to themselves to read the rules later, then forget
    2. Users compare the rules to fine print, where most don't read that.
    3. Sellers who simply don't give a crap and sign on to as many forums as possible to sell their wares.

    I think most who don't read it fall into the third possibility.

  9. #9
    I think if you'll go back and take a look most of the one hit wonders we get usually DONT come back except to promote more items for sale. It's THEIR choice...not of our doing. It finally gets ridiculous, and honestly, I don't give a rat's ass that they return or not. What's even worse than the "You're a fucking loser" sales pitch are the "idiots" and, Hell yes I consider them idiots, who don't even try to sell foot fetish items! I've said it before and I'll keep right on saying it with absolutely no qualms...."Go peddle your nasty panties elsewhere!"
    "I'm from trouble"

  10. #10
    Administrator ergleburgle's Avatar
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    FootTimes: I agree. I'm not daft. I know people don't read the small print. Humans are like that. The point is, it's a safety barrier; if you don't read it and you come unstuck, YOU'RE in trouble, not me.

    The fun thing about the rulebook here... is that I genuinely, hand on my heart, don't think there's anything in there that a decent person wouldn't do regardless. It's common sense; it's about good manners, mutual respect, and abiding by the law. I would argue that the kind of people we want to be here would, by their own nature, behave properly. It doesn't matter if it's against the rules to harass women by PM; you wouldn't do it any way. It doesn't matter if we ask you to settle in and contribute something before you try to start a business; you would do that any way. There is absolutely NOTHING that I find to be un-intuitive or unreasonable... so when I see the rules disrespected, it's not so much a sign that somebody's failed to read the rules... it's a sign that they're probably not a very nice person.

    Even if there is NO RULEBOOK WHATSOEVER... I feel like stomping in and starting to sell things before showing even basic courtesies; introducing yourself, finding out a little bit about the people around you, creating some friendships, etc... is something that good people would do instinctively.

    I know full well that 95% of the people here haven't read the rules - probably because they've been here for longer than we've HAD rules. Does that affect them? Do they notice? Do I care? No, of course not!

    The problem is... bitchy sock sellers are exactly as you describe; they're in business, they sign up at a hundred different places to increase their catchment zone. I studied Marketing, and I used to run a software business. I know how this shit works. People make ASSUMPTIONS; about the forum, and about the people. They see "Den Of Smelly Feet" and they imagine a sex-driven masturbation hub filled with desperate men. That is exactly what DOSF consciously tries NOT to be - and believe me, given our subject matter it's an uphill battle to avoid turning into a masturbatory mosh pit.

    I know we're not the biggest. I know we don't have the most porn. I know we don't have any big industry stars posting here. This isn't the "one stop shop" for foot fetishists. We're not famous. You know what? I'm thrilled about all of that... and I'm willing to bet that most of the people here, who understand this place, feel the same way.

    Every now and again, I get well-meaning messages from people, giving me ideas for growing DOSF. I don't WANT to grow DOSF. We've experimented with a sizable download section, and do you know what happened? We got 50,000 visitors a day and 100 posts a week - and three quarters of the posts were talking about the download section. The server bills went up, so Schoolmat had to find a way to pay that because it was ABSOLUTELY UNFAIR that he should have to pay it out of his own pocket. It didn't work. We saw the error of our ways, and got rid of that. Yes, we still get people posting pictures, and videos, and I love that... But the focus has shifted. We're not trying to be the Mousepad, or go after Clips4sale. We're not about porn or piracy. Our bandwidth bills are lower, and our storage needs are lower.

    Now, we get an average of about 40-50 posts a week... but 90% of them are conversational. I would rather have a small slice of a delicious pie than a gigantic slice of a bland one.

    We've got more women here than ever before - I haven't counted or done the mathematics so if somebody would like to do so I'd be interested in the statistics. By women I mean genuine people who belong and who happen to be female, not the "buy my stinking underpants" or "this is my clip store, loser wanker boys" brigade.

    The reason is very, very simple - and I'm not making this up; this is what the TELL ME: When we keep the wrong people out, we're giving the RIGHT people a reason to stay.

    That's what it's all about for me.
    Every thought you produce, anything you say, any action you do, it bears your signature.
    -- Thich Nhat Hanh

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sacurason View Post
    \4. *piece.

    ...of?

  12. #12
    God Of Footsniffing sacurason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggy_frued View Post
    but I've said my peace.
    Wrong 'peace'. You want 'piece', as in "I've said my piece, segment, slice; I've had my say" as opposed to "I've said my peace", as in the opposite of war.

    But that was nitpicking. Was there nothing else worth responding to, or are we all squared away?
    "It's an indulgence to sit in a room and discuss your beliefs as if they were a juicy piece of gossip." -Heinlein

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